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	<title>Comments on: Why Doesn&#8217;t Alt Culture Exist?</title>
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	<description>Coilhouse</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Komoda</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-328</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Komoda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 20:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-328</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;”That’s why I’m curious about the motivation of the other ones. What is it that they’re really trying to accomplish?”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I’ve always sensed that there are those who have inborn insecurities which motivate them towards some form of actualization, who spend their lives looking for something, ANYTHING to justify this impulse, even if it means completely assimulating the life’s work of another. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On a side note, I’ve always found it hysterical that, by their nature, ego-driven self-promoters absolutely HATE and vilify others cut from the same cloth. i.e. “Look! Just look at this FUCKER… polluting the world with his impotent, excremental, apologetic excuses for art! He’s never had an original idea in his entire sad life! Oh he’s a real rockstar now, isn’t he. I tell you, that piece-o-shit’s head won’t fit through a DOOR!” etc.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ah, the “Mirror That Flatters Not”. It’s all so amusingly venomous.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>”That’s why I’m curious about the motivation of the other ones. What is it that they’re really trying to accomplish?”</p>
<p>I’ve always sensed that there are those who have inborn insecurities which motivate them towards some form of actualization, who spend their lives looking for something, ANYTHING to justify this impulse, even if it means completely assimulating the life’s work of another. </p>
<p>On a side note, I’ve always found it hysterical that, by their nature, ego-driven self-promoters absolutely HATE and vilify others cut from the same cloth. i.e. “Look! Just look at this FUCKER… polluting the world with his impotent, excremental, apologetic excuses for art! He’s never had an original idea in his entire sad life! Oh he’s a real rockstar now, isn’t he. I tell you, that piece-o-shit’s head won’t fit through a DOOR!” etc.</p>
<p>Ah, the “Mirror That Flatters Not”. It’s all so amusingly venomous.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Johnson</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-320</guid>
		<description>&quot;The real winners don’t have the time or stomach to do that lame shit. This phenomenon causes the truly passionate and talented people to run away.&quot;

Obviously what is needed is a new breed of super creative barbarian warrior nomads. 

It seems to me that resentment is only likely to occur if the person is hoping to get something: money, fame, respect, acclaim, etc. Especially money. I&#039;m lucky enough to make my living being creative, and I can recognize the difference between how I feel about the creativity I do for money, and the creativity I do on the side. Sometimes alt culture production is a means to an end, and other times it&#039;s and end in itself. Rarely are these lines cleanly drawn, however, and I think that may be where a lot of the confusion comes from.

My gut, and a significant portion of hip-hop music, still tells me that in the long run a creative person who stands by their work and strives for quality and personal expression will win out over the noisy crowd of non-contributing copycats. That&#039;s why I&#039;m curious about the motivation of the other ones. What is it that they&#039;re really trying to accomplish?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The real winners don’t have the time or stomach to do that lame shit. This phenomenon causes the truly passionate and talented people to run away.&#8221;</p>
<p>Obviously what is needed is a new breed of super creative barbarian warrior nomads. </p>
<p>It seems to me that resentment is only likely to occur if the person is hoping to get something: money, fame, respect, acclaim, etc. Especially money. I&#8217;m lucky enough to make my living being creative, and I can recognize the difference between how I feel about the creativity I do for money, and the creativity I do on the side. Sometimes alt culture production is a means to an end, and other times it&#8217;s and end in itself. Rarely are these lines cleanly drawn, however, and I think that may be where a lot of the confusion comes from.</p>
<p>My gut, and a significant portion of hip-hop music, still tells me that in the long run a creative person who stands by their work and strives for quality and personal expression will win out over the noisy crowd of non-contributing copycats. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m curious about the motivation of the other ones. What is it that they&#8217;re really trying to accomplish?</p>
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		<title>By: nadyalev</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>nadyalev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-316</guid>
		<description>Ben, M1K3¥, and others on this thread: thank you for all of your thoughtful feedback! I want to follow up on some of your points in greater detail, but right now I only have brain energy enough for one nugget so here it is:

&quot;Who are these trendsetters who up and flee a scene entirely when others start biting their style? What’s their real motivation?”

I have two very good friends who I could cite as examples. Both are talented, creative, driven people who developed certain fashion trends long before I saw them skyrocket through the net&#039;s alt “visual culture.&quot; Sometimes, when you see people get inspired by your aesthetic, it&#039;s wonderful and rewarding... but when you see everyone doing it, it&#039;s probable that some will do it badly. It can be very personal, and when someone feels like their entire aesthetic has been ripped off AND corrupted on top of it, stripped of meaning, that can really ignite an impulse to just run the other direction. Some people (like you and me, I think) can take it, some can&#039;t. 
Also! I know I said I&#039;d respond to only one point BUT...
To be honest, worrying about other people reappropriating anything I create seems silly. I’m glad what I’m making is worth stealing. If they’re doing it worse than me, then I’ll start seeing more interest in my work due to my level of skill. If they’re doing it better, then I can learn from them and make a response of my own.&quot;
It&#039;s a matter of &quot;who cries the loudest.&quot; I&#039;ve noticed that a lot of people who blatantly, rapaciously, shamelessly appropriate something original that another person has done, they are the ones who self-advertise the loudest. Think of any contest on the web where people vote - who wins? The person who blogged about it the most and sent out the most mass emails and MySpace bulletins telling everyone to vote for them. The real winners don&#039;t have the time or stomach to do that lame shit. This phenomenon causes the truly passionate and talented people to run away. They don&#039;t want to be associated with the bullshit artists. Like I said... some can handle it, some can&#039;t. But it is a drain on creativity in this scene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, M1K3¥, and others on this thread: thank you for all of your thoughtful feedback! I want to follow up on some of your points in greater detail, but right now I only have brain energy enough for one nugget so here it is:</p>
<p>&#8220;Who are these trendsetters who up and flee a scene entirely when others start biting their style? What’s their real motivation?”</p>
<p>I have two very good friends who I could cite as examples. Both are talented, creative, driven people who developed certain fashion trends long before I saw them skyrocket through the net&#8217;s alt “visual culture.&#8221; Sometimes, when you see people get inspired by your aesthetic, it&#8217;s wonderful and rewarding&#8230; but when you see everyone doing it, it&#8217;s probable that some will do it badly. It can be very personal, and when someone feels like their entire aesthetic has been ripped off AND corrupted on top of it, stripped of meaning, that can really ignite an impulse to just run the other direction. Some people (like you and me, I think) can take it, some can&#8217;t.<br />
Also! I know I said I&#8217;d respond to only one point BUT&#8230;<br />
To be honest, worrying about other people reappropriating anything I create seems silly. I’m glad what I’m making is worth stealing. If they’re doing it worse than me, then I’ll start seeing more interest in my work due to my level of skill. If they’re doing it better, then I can learn from them and make a response of my own.&#8221;<br />
It&#8217;s a matter of &#8220;who cries the loudest.&#8221; I&#8217;ve noticed that a lot of people who blatantly, rapaciously, shamelessly appropriate something original that another person has done, they are the ones who self-advertise the loudest. Think of any contest on the web where people vote &#8211; who wins? The person who blogged about it the most and sent out the most mass emails and MySpace bulletins telling everyone to vote for them. The real winners don&#8217;t have the time or stomach to do that lame shit. This phenomenon causes the truly passionate and talented people to run away. They don&#8217;t want to be associated with the bullshit artists. Like I said&#8230; some can handle it, some can&#8217;t. But it is a drain on creativity in this scene.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Johnson</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 03:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-307</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting, but I usually read about this idea on pop-culture sites feeling frustrated that the &quot;mainstream&quot; doesn&#039;t exist any more.

Back in the late 90&#039;s I remember reading a newspaper article about the death of independent FM alternative radio in Minneapolis where the DJs bemoaned the difficulty of courting a music culture that championed music that wasn&#039;t getting played on the radio.

At VloggerCon 2006 in San Francisco I got in a conversation about the idea of &quot;privacy parties&quot; where attendees would abstain from recording anything or writing about it later so that the revelers could have a shared private experience.

There&#039;s also the whole &quot;long tail&quot; thing, where the connectivity of the internet renders anything put on it unobscure, and allows micro-niches to suddenly support entire subcultures.

And this all goes against the idea of &quot;Jante Law,&quot; a Norwegian concept summarized as &quot;Don&#039;t think you&#039;re anything special, or that you&#039;re better than us.&quot;

I&#039;m sorry, this is awfully disjointed, but I&#039;m still collecting thoughts and free associating. I guess rather than fret over whether alt culture exists in a super-connected world, I wonder what that would mean. The world is faster, and new novelties are almost unending, but they&#039;re also less exclusive than before. To be honest, worrying about other people reappropriating anything I create seems silly. I&#039;m glad what I&#039;m making is worth stealing. If they&#039;re doing it worse than me, then I&#039;ll start seeing more interest in my work due to my level of skill. If they&#039;re doing it better, then I can learn from them and make a response of my own. Hell, when I got into steampunk, it barely even had a name, and it was so boring compared to what&#039;s going on now with all the interest on the web.

Who are these trendsetters who up and flee a scene entirely when others start biting their style? What&#039;s their real motivation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting, but I usually read about this idea on pop-culture sites feeling frustrated that the &#8220;mainstream&#8221; doesn&#8217;t exist any more.</p>
<p>Back in the late 90&#8242;s I remember reading a newspaper article about the death of independent FM alternative radio in Minneapolis where the DJs bemoaned the difficulty of courting a music culture that championed music that wasn&#8217;t getting played on the radio.</p>
<p>At VloggerCon 2006 in San Francisco I got in a conversation about the idea of &#8220;privacy parties&#8221; where attendees would abstain from recording anything or writing about it later so that the revelers could have a shared private experience.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also the whole &#8220;long tail&#8221; thing, where the connectivity of the internet renders anything put on it unobscure, and allows micro-niches to suddenly support entire subcultures.</p>
<p>And this all goes against the idea of &#8220;Jante Law,&#8221; a Norwegian concept summarized as &#8220;Don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re anything special, or that you&#8217;re better than us.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, this is awfully disjointed, but I&#8217;m still collecting thoughts and free associating. I guess rather than fret over whether alt culture exists in a super-connected world, I wonder what that would mean. The world is faster, and new novelties are almost unending, but they&#8217;re also less exclusive than before. To be honest, worrying about other people reappropriating anything I create seems silly. I&#8217;m glad what I&#8217;m making is worth stealing. If they&#8217;re doing it worse than me, then I&#8217;ll start seeing more interest in my work due to my level of skill. If they&#8217;re doing it better, then I can learn from them and make a response of my own. Hell, when I got into steampunk, it barely even had a name, and it was so boring compared to what&#8217;s going on now with all the interest on the web.</p>
<p>Who are these trendsetters who up and flee a scene entirely when others start biting their style? What&#8217;s their real motivation?</p>
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		<title>By: M1K3¥&#8217;s Blog » Blog Archive &#187; ..Why Doesn’t Alt Culture Exist?..</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>M1K3¥&#8217;s Blog » Blog Archive &#187; ..Why Doesn’t Alt Culture Exist?..</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-290</guid>
		<description>[...] Coilhouse  responds to Herr Ellis&#8217;s comments on the death of Alt Culture:  Why Doesn’t Alt Culture Exist? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Coilhouse  responds to Herr Ellis&#8217;s comments on the death of Alt Culture:  Why Doesn’t Alt Culture Exist? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Komoda</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Komoda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-286</guid>
		<description>A most excellent re-assessment, Nadya.
  As we were discussing, everything seems to be caught up in this relatively sudden transition from one modality to the next. I agree that it may be this loosely defined resultant hybrid culture that catalyzes mutation like living expressions of Burrough&#039;s literary montage techniques.
&quot;Cut into the present and the future leaks out.&quot;

Once more, I salute Jhayne&#039;s contribution.
 Graham is articulating the point in a way that directly speaks to me at every moment of doubt I&#039;d ever experienced within the contentious love-hate relationship I&#039;ve had with my own work.
Whenever I meet individuals who tell me that something I&#039;ve done  affected them positively in some way, I think back to the bludgeoning degrees of anger and despair that I, all too often, put myself through, and can only guess at the nullity which would have opened up to engulf me, had I given in to it.
To know that you&#039;ve made a difference on some level can be profoundly validating. Conversely, I have met those who openly despised my work. Should I accede to them the voice of reason? Fuck, no!
 Whether what I do becomes a focal point in the move towards futurity or is merely re-appropriated as a quaint cultural artifact remains to be seen, but I&#039;m having too much fun to even comtemplate capitulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A most excellent re-assessment, Nadya.<br />
  As we were discussing, everything seems to be caught up in this relatively sudden transition from one modality to the next. I agree that it may be this loosely defined resultant hybrid culture that catalyzes mutation like living expressions of Burrough&#8217;s literary montage techniques.<br />
&#8220;Cut into the present and the future leaks out.&#8221;</p>
<p>Once more, I salute Jhayne&#8217;s contribution.<br />
 Graham is articulating the point in a way that directly speaks to me at every moment of doubt I&#8217;d ever experienced within the contentious love-hate relationship I&#8217;ve had with my own work.<br />
Whenever I meet individuals who tell me that something I&#8217;ve done  affected them positively in some way, I think back to the bludgeoning degrees of anger and despair that I, all too often, put myself through, and can only guess at the nullity which would have opened up to engulf me, had I given in to it.<br />
To know that you&#8217;ve made a difference on some level can be profoundly validating. Conversely, I have met those who openly despised my work. Should I accede to them the voice of reason? Fuck, no!<br />
 Whether what I do becomes a focal point in the move towards futurity or is merely re-appropriated as a quaint cultural artifact remains to be seen, but I&#8217;m having too much fun to even comtemplate capitulation.</p>
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		<title>By: Tequila</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator>Tequila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-285</guid>
		<description>&quot;...and now even 90s grunge is making a comeback...&quot;

This cannot be allowed to happen...at all. It was fun the first time but come on...flannel again? Really? Bands who sound like bands from the 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s only with less polish? WE ALREADY HAD THAT TWICE NOW!...

With people being found guilty of mass distraction toward anything or substance and importance it seems as though everyone is just stuck in &quot;Angry Rant Mode&quot; as opposed to heading out and doing something, anything, everything...hell it&#039;s gotten so that it&#039;s hard to take a sub culture seriously when you have them as &quot;Theme Nights&quot; for assorted clubs and venues...so that eternal Ren. Faire comment above is dead accurate. 

Many just seem bored or so worried about everything from terrorists to their local barista they can&#039;t get around to doing anything for the sake of losing everything. Plus one has to admit we tend to expect far too much from those proven to give very little of what we actually need...creativity is alive and well...it&#039;s just being torn in two directions. One side wants it secretive and pure others want it commercial and whored into oblivion.

People are slowly waking up though...and boy are they gonna be cranky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;and now even 90s grunge is making a comeback&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>This cannot be allowed to happen&#8230;at all. It was fun the first time but come on&#8230;flannel again? Really? Bands who sound like bands from the 60&#8242;s and 70&#8242;s only with less polish? WE ALREADY HAD THAT TWICE NOW!&#8230;</p>
<p>With people being found guilty of mass distraction toward anything or substance and importance it seems as though everyone is just stuck in &#8220;Angry Rant Mode&#8221; as opposed to heading out and doing something, anything, everything&#8230;hell it&#8217;s gotten so that it&#8217;s hard to take a sub culture seriously when you have them as &#8220;Theme Nights&#8221; for assorted clubs and venues&#8230;so that eternal Ren. Faire comment above is dead accurate. </p>
<p>Many just seem bored or so worried about everything from terrorists to their local barista they can&#8217;t get around to doing anything for the sake of losing everything. Plus one has to admit we tend to expect far too much from those proven to give very little of what we actually need&#8230;creativity is alive and well&#8230;it&#8217;s just being torn in two directions. One side wants it secretive and pure others want it commercial and whored into oblivion.</p>
<p>People are slowly waking up though&#8230;and boy are they gonna be cranky.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerem Morrow</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerem Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-277</guid>
		<description>Jhayne, indeed! We&#039;ll have no apathy! No, namby pamby second thoughts. We&#039;re in ze business of living.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jhayne, indeed! We&#8217;ll have no apathy! No, namby pamby second thoughts. We&#8217;re in ze business of living.</p>
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		<title>By: nadyalev</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-276</link>
		<dc:creator>nadyalev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-276</guid>
		<description>@ Jhayne: thank you for those inspiring words! I think Graham totally hits the nail on the head, conveying the same message that we want to get out with this site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Jhayne: thank you for those inspiring words! I think Graham totally hits the nail on the head, conveying the same message that we want to get out with this site.</p>
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		<title>By: zoetica</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/comment-page-1/#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>zoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/2007/10/22/why-doesnt-alt-culture-exist/#comment-274</guid>
		<description>Jhayne - a great punctuation to the article!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jhayne &#8211; a great punctuation to the article!</p>
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