Comments on: Men, Heroes, and Gay Nazis

By: Tincho

Tincho — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 12:31:50 +0000

@Alice: fully agree on that, is amazing how the gay/lesbian community discriminates against other colors in the queer spectrum, and against heterosexuals too.

I’ve witnessed/suffered personally both kinds, in different countries. Too bad nowadays people only care if a hetero disciminates a G/L, but not the other way aournd.

By: Jamie

Jamie — Sun, 31 May 2009 14:37:00 +0000

Definitely agreeing with Kale Kip. I think the subject is really interesting, but I got halfway through part 3 and can’t bring myself to watch any more. I’ve got this feeling of disgust and discomfort that isn’t going away.

On a lighter note, when I saw the title of the post, I immediately thought of Hooded Justice. Clearly someone’s been getting a little too into the Watchmen sourcebook lately…

By: john colby

john colby — Sat, 30 May 2009 01:58:34 +0000

Nadya, sorry to say it but Human nature sadly runs contrary for the most part. Hess was gay as well , he had wild parties for the boys. I scanned some the the VP book I email it to you if I can find it. You’d like the book. Its the whole history of Weimar Berlin.

By: Bertrand

Bertrand — Fri, 29 May 2009 19:04:31 +0000

Haha this is a tricky subject. The lack of actual historical elements to prove or dismiss the various degrees of influence gay groups may have had on the nazi movements led me to file it alongside the “occult roots of nazism” !
One element that the documentary doesnt quote, though, is the Volkish background of the rise of nazsm : long before nazism arised, in the early to late 1900′, the Volkish movement, which was some kind of prototype of 60′ hyppies, promoted an aesthetic based on the idealisation of the naked body and emphasized the importance of living close to nature. This, alongside Ernst Junger’s very own brand of idealised form of warrior-like friendship, was probably at the root of most of the gay-looking nazi iconography (just look at Arno Brecker for example) ;
I have once heard of a straight german NPD that Rohm’s opinion was that, just like in ancient germany, the weak/passive homosexuals had to be drowned in the swamps. I have no clue where he had this from and no idea if there is any historical proof that either german tribes or SA we practicing this policy or thinking of doing so, but the idea that the passive homosexuals where the “unpure” ones would fit in the picture.
As well, to understand gay neo-nazis, it is important i believe to understand that neo-nazis are very different from the original nazis. Anyone spending some time within those groups will understand after some time that most of them, be it the leaders or the grunts, and be them gay or straight, have a very fetishistic relation to nazism : like a lot of extremists movements in our post-modern contemporary settings, they are more pre-occupied with aesthetics than with proper politics.
Add to this that during those last twenty years extrem rights movements have been trying hard to place themselves as oppressed minorities and portrait themselves more as the resistance (see the pro-palestinians, eco-fascists, animal-right protecting ns for example) than as the oppressor they used to appear like in the 8O’, and you have an odd conjunction that allow gay fetishists to use the npd as a whole as a playground for their life-size fantasies.

By: Tequila

Tequila — Fri, 29 May 2009 18:15:16 +0000

@haxor…Yup, plus Rohm was hardly subtle about his sexuality and in his ranks it was heavily encouraged to be open about it. The SA camps (regular camps not concentration camps) of the era were pretty much 100% male. Needless to say it raised all sorts of questions from those outside the organization as to how healthy this was…not only on a moral level but on a social one. I remember a debate long ago as to where women would have been placed on a Nazi Germany where Rohm continued to have heavy influence. Had the Night of Long Knives been a failure one wonders just how far Rohm would have pushed his lifestyle and ideology within the Nazi ranks.

@mano…I would totally go see that band. The merch alone would be awesome. I kinda want a rainbow colored panzer t-shirt now.

@R. No doubt, though it should be noted Rohm was a key architect of the Nazi machine prior to his death. So really when you are that high up, you make and break rules of any kind at will. Ideology at that point really can just become another means to an end…not a hardline doctrine.

It’s an interesting documentary so far, still going through it. Always been fascinated how groups define masculinity. It’s such a core issue between gay and straight men (and within each “side” also) that one wonders just how much of that slows progress down or how much it will always keep many at violent odds

By: R.

R. — Fri, 29 May 2009 15:44:19 +0000

It’s not hard to believe that people who are oppressed would join groups that seek to oppress them. You have gay Republicans and as we all know, most Republicans want to cart gays off to somewhere far away.

Also by not acknowledging that others of the same background were being killed, I’m sure Rohm would have said it was his duty to Hitler and to Germany. While he could have covertly aided them, the mindset of Nazi Germany was already ingrained in him like a brand on skin.

By: Kale Kip

Kale Kip — Fri, 29 May 2009 14:05:49 +0000

That documentary made me very uncomfortable. It is that awkward mix of pity and disgust I feel for neonazi’s and other hooligans, except that this is even more fucked up. There’s a part of me that feels terrible sorry for those guys, and there’s a part of me that says that Ernst Rohm sort of had it coming. Both make me feel sick. I wonder if these people are psychologically similar to bug chasers.

This is one of the few moments I wish I had hair on my head.

By: haxor

haxor — Fri, 29 May 2009 13:24:14 +0000

@Nadya Röhm didn’t turn a blind eye on what happened to “his kind”. He was killed in 1934. The first concentration camp was established in 1933 and was first only used for political enemys (communists, liberals, christians…). Concentration camps for gays came later.

By: Nadya

Nadya — Fri, 29 May 2009 08:17:11 +0000

@ John – Part 5 of this documentary focuses heavily on Rohm. How strange that he and others like him from his time could turn a blind eye to what was happening to “their kind” in the concentration camps!

By: mano

mano — Fri, 29 May 2009 04:11:16 +0000

Too bad Pink Panzer is already taken, that would be a perfect name for a gay, white power hardcore band. Bonus points if they are Mexican.