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	<title>Comments on: Mike Brodie&#8217;s Glimpses of the Under-Underclass</title>
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	<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/</link>
	<description>Coilhouse</description>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16553</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16553</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great insights in the comments everyone, I used to live in a place that had a major freight junction right up against an area full of fairly low rent apartments near a college, it&#039;s just the sort of place for the occasional appearance of people living this life and I&#039;ve always been curious but too timid to approach any of these folks when i see them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great insights in the comments everyone, I used to live in a place that had a major freight junction right up against an area full of fairly low rent apartments near a college, it&#8217;s just the sort of place for the occasional appearance of people living this life and I&#8217;ve always been curious but too timid to approach any of these folks when i see them.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16526</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16526</guid>
		<description>I feel conflicted about Kale&#039;s statements above.  It sounds like Kale and friends were imposing structures born of familiarity with privilege (IE socially managing an audience or housemates, organizing an art exhibition, etc) upon a group and way of life that do not follow those structures by their nature (IE people who have chosen poverty and homelessness or been forced there by circumstances who do not follow mainstream exercises in politeness or privileged structures of behavior, or never had these modeled for them) - IE producing a frustrating situation for him/herself by his/her own assumptions about how people should behave.  I hope that makes sense.  I agree that there are those who are the ultimate lazy consumer, and that most people living this life are living directly off the systems they purport to despise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel conflicted about Kale&#8217;s statements above.  It sounds like Kale and friends were imposing structures born of familiarity with privilege (IE socially managing an audience or housemates, organizing an art exhibition, etc) upon a group and way of life that do not follow those structures by their nature (IE people who have chosen poverty and homelessness or been forced there by circumstances who do not follow mainstream exercises in politeness or privileged structures of behavior, or never had these modeled for them) &#8211; IE producing a frustrating situation for him/herself by his/her own assumptions about how people should behave.  I hope that makes sense.  I agree that there are those who are the ultimate lazy consumer, and that most people living this life are living directly off the systems they purport to despise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerem Morrow</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16367</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerem Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16367</guid>
		<description>Kale: Danke for that insight. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kale: Danke for that insight. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Mer</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16362</link>
		<dc:creator>Mer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16362</guid>
		<description>I hear you loud and clear, friend. Thanks for taking the time to answer so thoroughly and thoughtfully. I understand where you&#039;re coming from much more clearly now, and the squat situation you describe would have frustrated the shit out of me, too.

 Re: hardened homeless train-hoppers.... What do you know about the FTRA (Freight Train Riders of America)? I&#039;m sure some of that has been hyped up, but there&#039;s something to it, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you loud and clear, friend. Thanks for taking the time to answer so thoroughly and thoughtfully. I understand where you&#8217;re coming from much more clearly now, and the squat situation you describe would have frustrated the shit out of me, too.</p>
<p> Re: hardened homeless train-hoppers&#8230;. What do you know about the FTRA (Freight Train Riders of America)? I&#8217;m sure some of that has been hyped up, but there&#8217;s something to it, no?</p>
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		<title>By: Kale Kip</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16361</link>
		<dc:creator>Kale Kip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16361</guid>
		<description>Fuck Mer, is it that obvious? 

Well, if you really want to know: 
*lies down on the divan*

I&#039;ve been involved in my local squat scene since I was about 15. It requires quite some work to renovate an abandoned building and to keep it fun, accessible and edgy. And you really need all of that to maintain it, because when it is no fun, people won&#039;t invest their spare time. If it isn&#039;t accessible, people won&#039;t visit. If it isn&#039;t edgy, well, you kinda missed the whole point.

In my particular case, the work of me an my friends paid off and we got pretty successful. Then all the hobo&#039;s started showing up. We&#039;d organise a free concert, they&#039;d bring their own beer and we could pay the band out of our own pockets. They&#039;d decide it is a good idea to break the windows of a local diner in an attempt to &quot;smash capitalism&quot;, we get to answer to the municipality who tries to shut us down. 
Imagine trying to organise an art-exposition when there are dogs fighting in your venue and their smelly owners crash down in a corner with a tray of beer and start having a belching contest. How the fuck can you keep people motivated to put their spare time in such a place? I&#039;ve been dragging assholes like that out of our place for ages, but they just move on and make way for other hobo&#039;s. I can&#039;t see what people find inspiring about that. I only see them discouraging people that actually are trying to build something. 

And eventually I became one of those discouraged people. I still write press releases for my old squat and help out with the lobbying and all. But I hardly go to the place anymore, because I can&#039;t stand the crusties. 

So that is the personal part of my scorn for hobo culture.

The other part is more fundamental. It really upsets me how in our present culture, people are treated more and more as convenience oriented animals rather than creative individuals. In our culture, creativity hardly gets any attention anymore, you can forget about it being rewarded. There was a post about the deterioration of MTV here the other day, so I guess you know what I mean. It is part of the reason why I love Coilhouse.

It might go against the ideas these hobo&#039;s preach, but from what they practice I think they are the paramount of convenience dominated culture. These people are about consumption and consumption alone. All their choices go out for the cheapest: the cheapest food, alcohol, means of transport, heating (a dog) and housing. There is no other motives than laziness and primary urges. It is like staring into a void of humanity.

Why I think the hardened homeless train-hopper doesn&#039;t exist is that if you rail away from an awful squalid home life, you&#039;d probably want to end up in a better place. There is no reason you would stay in an awful, squalid situation on the road. Unless you become a junkie, then you just stop caring and then there&#039;s no reason to travel anymore. You just end up in a big city and you&#039;ll die there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fuck Mer, is it that obvious? </p>
<p>Well, if you really want to know:<br />
*lies down on the divan*</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been involved in my local squat scene since I was about 15. It requires quite some work to renovate an abandoned building and to keep it fun, accessible and edgy. And you really need all of that to maintain it, because when it is no fun, people won&#8217;t invest their spare time. If it isn&#8217;t accessible, people won&#8217;t visit. If it isn&#8217;t edgy, well, you kinda missed the whole point.</p>
<p>In my particular case, the work of me an my friends paid off and we got pretty successful. Then all the hobo&#8217;s started showing up. We&#8217;d organise a free concert, they&#8217;d bring their own beer and we could pay the band out of our own pockets. They&#8217;d decide it is a good idea to break the windows of a local diner in an attempt to &#8220;smash capitalism&#8221;, we get to answer to the municipality who tries to shut us down.<br />
Imagine trying to organise an art-exposition when there are dogs fighting in your venue and their smelly owners crash down in a corner with a tray of beer and start having a belching contest. How the fuck can you keep people motivated to put their spare time in such a place? I&#8217;ve been dragging assholes like that out of our place for ages, but they just move on and make way for other hobo&#8217;s. I can&#8217;t see what people find inspiring about that. I only see them discouraging people that actually are trying to build something. </p>
<p>And eventually I became one of those discouraged people. I still write press releases for my old squat and help out with the lobbying and all. But I hardly go to the place anymore, because I can&#8217;t stand the crusties. </p>
<p>So that is the personal part of my scorn for hobo culture.</p>
<p>The other part is more fundamental. It really upsets me how in our present culture, people are treated more and more as convenience oriented animals rather than creative individuals. In our culture, creativity hardly gets any attention anymore, you can forget about it being rewarded. There was a post about the deterioration of MTV here the other day, so I guess you know what I mean. It is part of the reason why I love Coilhouse.</p>
<p>It might go against the ideas these hobo&#8217;s preach, but from what they practice I think they are the paramount of convenience dominated culture. These people are about consumption and consumption alone. All their choices go out for the cheapest: the cheapest food, alcohol, means of transport, heating (a dog) and housing. There is no other motives than laziness and primary urges. It is like staring into a void of humanity.</p>
<p>Why I think the hardened homeless train-hopper doesn&#8217;t exist is that if you rail away from an awful squalid home life, you&#8217;d probably want to end up in a better place. There is no reason you would stay in an awful, squalid situation on the road. Unless you become a junkie, then you just stop caring and then there&#8217;s no reason to travel anymore. You just end up in a big city and you&#8217;ll die there.</p>
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		<title>By: Mer</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16360</link>
		<dc:creator>Mer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16360</guid>
		<description>Hey, Kale? Not trying to be combative here, but if you&#039;d be willing to talk about it, I&#039;m honestly curious to know where your obviously deep scorn is coming from. 

My own view is that there are probably as many reasons for train-hopping as there are people who do it. And while a lot of the kids I know who&#039;ve lived this experience were middle class or wealthier, I also know some who road the rails away from some pretty awful, squalid home lives.

&quot;I don’t think the actual hardened, homeless train-hopper exists.&quot;

I&#039;m pretty sure there&#039;s evidence to refute that claim, but why don&#039;t you think so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Kale? Not trying to be combative here, but if you&#8217;d be willing to talk about it, I&#8217;m honestly curious to know where your obviously deep scorn is coming from. </p>
<p>My own view is that there are probably as many reasons for train-hopping as there are people who do it. And while a lot of the kids I know who&#8217;ve lived this experience were middle class or wealthier, I also know some who road the rails away from some pretty awful, squalid home lives.</p>
<p>&#8220;I don’t think the actual hardened, homeless train-hopper exists.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure there&#8217;s evidence to refute that claim, but why don&#8217;t you think so?</p>
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		<title>By: Kale Kip</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16358</link>
		<dc:creator>Kale Kip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16358</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the actual hardened, homeless train-hopper exists. This is what you do when you want to piss off your rich parents. These are kids trying to live like dogs. If you are really poor, you are fighting to preserve your last bits of humanity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the actual hardened, homeless train-hopper exists. This is what you do when you want to piss off your rich parents. These are kids trying to live like dogs. If you are really poor, you are fighting to preserve your last bits of humanity.</p>
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		<title>By: Mer</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16350</link>
		<dc:creator>Mer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16350</guid>
		<description>Whelky, I guess my definition of &quot;hobo&quot; is a bit off... but not TOO far off! :) I don&#039;t immediately think &quot;actual destitute homeless&quot; when I hear the word, maybe I should? 

But I actually get a bit confused when folks use it as a default word to describe a homeless person, because as far as I know, it&#039;s a slang term that popped up in the American dialect in the late 1800s specifically to describe train-hopping travelers and migrant workers with no permanent address. Homeless, yes, but still movin&#039; and shakin&#039; on the railroad.

I&#039;ve heard a couple of my own friends who&#039;ve ridden the rails refer to themselves as such, despite not being seriously down and out. They certainly were not destitute, and most of them had parents eager to put a roof back over their heads. 

I&#039;m sure the difference between poor young vacationer and actual hardened, homeless train-hopper becomes very evident once you&#039;re riding the rails. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whelky, I guess my definition of &#8220;hobo&#8221; is a bit off&#8230; but not TOO far off! :) I don&#8217;t immediately think &#8220;actual destitute homeless&#8221; when I hear the word, maybe I should? </p>
<p>But I actually get a bit confused when folks use it as a default word to describe a homeless person, because as far as I know, it&#8217;s a slang term that popped up in the American dialect in the late 1800s specifically to describe train-hopping travelers and migrant workers with no permanent address. Homeless, yes, but still movin&#8217; and shakin&#8217; on the railroad.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve heard a couple of my own friends who&#8217;ve ridden the rails refer to themselves as such, despite not being seriously down and out. They certainly were not destitute, and most of them had parents eager to put a roof back over their heads. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the difference between poor young vacationer and actual hardened, homeless train-hopper becomes very evident once you&#8217;re riding the rails. :)</p>
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		<title>By: greenpencil</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16348</link>
		<dc:creator>greenpencil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16348</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have anything meaningful to add to the discussion but this. The guy in the last picture kinda looks like Nick Cave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have anything meaningful to add to the discussion but this. The guy in the last picture kinda looks like Nick Cave.</p>
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		<title>By: whelky</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/06/mike-brodies-glimpses-of-the-under-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-16347</link>
		<dc:creator>whelky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:44:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8116#comment-16347</guid>
		<description>yea, these are so awesome and i hope mike brodie is okay

i disagree with these being a stark portrait of homelessness in america though.   train punks and crusties =/= hobos.   i recognize at least two of the people in those pictures and would never describe them as hobos at all.  in my own experience of riding trains, most of the people in these circles aren&#039;t homeless and staying in squats/riding the rails is more of a &quot;poor vacation&quot; than anything else.  of course there are some actual destitute homeless people involved, but i&#039;ve never seen any that look this arty or stylish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yea, these are so awesome and i hope mike brodie is okay</p>
<p>i disagree with these being a stark portrait of homelessness in america though.   train punks and crusties =/= hobos.   i recognize at least two of the people in those pictures and would never describe them as hobos at all.  in my own experience of riding trains, most of the people in these circles aren&#8217;t homeless and staying in squats/riding the rails is more of a &#8220;poor vacation&#8221; than anything else.  of course there are some actual destitute homeless people involved, but i&#8217;ve never seen any that look this arty or stylish.</p>
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