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	<title>Comments on: All Tomorrows: The Dying Earth</title>
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	<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/</link>
	<description>Coilhouse</description>
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		<title>By: otto</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-42373</link>
		<dc:creator>otto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-42373</guid>
		<description>Jack Vance is one of the best author coming out of America and he will be remembered such as in one hundred years. An equivalent of Poe and Lovecraft. Dick starts to gain some recognition theses days. 
J.V. will follow, just wait for him to die.
For people who love fantasy AND dark humor, the adventures of Cugel, located in the Dying Earth of this blog post, are a must read. A must read 10 times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack Vance is one of the best author coming out of America and he will be remembered such as in one hundred years. An equivalent of Poe and Lovecraft. Dick starts to gain some recognition theses days.<br />
J.V. will follow, just wait for him to die.<br />
For people who love fantasy AND dark humor, the adventures of Cugel, located in the Dying Earth of this blog post, are a must read. A must read 10 times.</p>
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		<title>By: bjacques</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19694</link>
		<dc:creator>bjacques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19694</guid>
		<description>A good murder mystery is the modern Hero&#039;s Journey. I&#039;ve been wolfing down James Lee Burke mysteries lately, since I spent some of my formative years in New Orleans, where a lot of the stories action takes place. 

Damaged hero
Quest for justice
Monsters (the human kind)
Battles with same
Dark nights of the soul
Justice dealt
Injustice dealt

I find them thrilling, and they deal with things I&#039;ve sort of known lay below the surface of a town I knew long ago as a kid but still visit every few years.

Serial killers are the modern boogeymen, human predators. Their lairs and killing grounds are still remembered, and (generally) avoided as if cursed considered cursed.

The internet sn&#039;t a good substitute, because nothing visceral happens on it. It may show us awesome and awful things, like the haunted painting on eBay, but it&#039;s not an agent of them. In fact, it&#039;s probably killed urban legends. Internet memes and chain emails are just a continuation of the fads and manias recounted in books like Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness of Crowds, or Work Hard And You Will Be Rewarded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good murder mystery is the modern Hero&#8217;s Journey. I&#8217;ve been wolfing down James Lee Burke mysteries lately, since I spent some of my formative years in New Orleans, where a lot of the stories action takes place. </p>
<p>Damaged hero<br />
Quest for justice<br />
Monsters (the human kind)<br />
Battles with same<br />
Dark nights of the soul<br />
Justice dealt<br />
Injustice dealt</p>
<p>I find them thrilling, and they deal with things I&#8217;ve sort of known lay below the surface of a town I knew long ago as a kid but still visit every few years.</p>
<p>Serial killers are the modern boogeymen, human predators. Their lairs and killing grounds are still remembered, and (generally) avoided as if cursed considered cursed.</p>
<p>The internet sn&#8217;t a good substitute, because nothing visceral happens on it. It may show us awesome and awful things, like the haunted painting on eBay, but it&#8217;s not an agent of them. In fact, it&#8217;s probably killed urban legends. Internet memes and chain emails are just a continuation of the fads and manias recounted in books like Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness of Crowds, or Work Hard And You Will Be Rewarded.</p>
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		<title>By: Julia Navigatrix</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19618</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia Navigatrix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19618</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I&#039;d consider internet memes/fads to be fairy tales, exactly. As Jonno points out, they tend to be ephemeral and flash-in-the-pan, and I think that for something to obtain the status of mythology or folklore it has to *last*. 

 I feel that many of our old fairy tales are still up to the job, though we often modernize or otherwise alter them in the retelling to make parts more applicable to our own society. But the story of Little Red Riding Hood is still the story of Little Red Riding Hood even if you set it in a city and switch the wolf for a more urban and urbane and human sort of predator. Certain patterns, motifs that really resonate with us will stick around for as long as human beings are human beings. 

Maybe we have managed to add a few new creatures and archetypes to our collective imaginary menagerie in recent decades, though-- Romero&#039;s zombies spring (okay, shamble and groan) to mind. I don&#039;t think they&#039;re flash-in-the-pan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d consider internet memes/fads to be fairy tales, exactly. As Jonno points out, they tend to be ephemeral and flash-in-the-pan, and I think that for something to obtain the status of mythology or folklore it has to *last*. </p>
<p> I feel that many of our old fairy tales are still up to the job, though we often modernize or otherwise alter them in the retelling to make parts more applicable to our own society. But the story of Little Red Riding Hood is still the story of Little Red Riding Hood even if you set it in a city and switch the wolf for a more urban and urbane and human sort of predator. Certain patterns, motifs that really resonate with us will stick around for as long as human beings are human beings. </p>
<p>Maybe we have managed to add a few new creatures and archetypes to our collective imaginary menagerie in recent decades, though&#8211; Romero&#8217;s zombies spring (okay, shamble and groan) to mind. I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re flash-in-the-pan.</p>
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		<title>By: Emera</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19547</link>
		<dc:creator>Emera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19547</guid>
		<description>Fantastic article - I&#039;ve been thinking about Jack Vance lately, and this gave me renewed determination to hunt down his books. I&#039;ve only read &quot;Liane the Wayfarer&quot; before, and can remember every image from the story so perfectly. It feels like such a whole world - as if you&#039;ve found a perfectly preserved scrap of a tapestry, and can almost-but-not quite puzzle out what made up the rest of the image - and the ending is such a disturbing violation. :P Brrr.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic article &#8211; I&#8217;ve been thinking about Jack Vance lately, and this gave me renewed determination to hunt down his books. I&#8217;ve only read &#8220;Liane the Wayfarer&#8221; before, and can remember every image from the story so perfectly. It feels like such a whole world &#8211; as if you&#8217;ve found a perfectly preserved scrap of a tapestry, and can almost-but-not quite puzzle out what made up the rest of the image &#8211; and the ending is such a disturbing violation. :P Brrr.</p>
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		<title>By: /d</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19284</link>
		<dc:creator>/d</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19284</guid>
		<description>In a world where everything is random and slowly falls apart I find that my own fairytales are the neat stories, with endings that make sense and that leave no questions - Jeff Noon and Iain Banks perhaps.

Vance I read a lot of late 80s and then again late 90s. Perhaps time for some more of that. Never liked his fantasy setting stuff though.

Perfect chewing-gum-for-the-brain would be something along the lines of The Adventures of Jack (or Bobby) Shaftoe.

As the godfather of my best friend&#039;s kids, is it a bad thing to already have a plan for their future reading?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a world where everything is random and slowly falls apart I find that my own fairytales are the neat stories, with endings that make sense and that leave no questions &#8211; Jeff Noon and Iain Banks perhaps.</p>
<p>Vance I read a lot of late 80s and then again late 90s. Perhaps time for some more of that. Never liked his fantasy setting stuff though.</p>
<p>Perfect chewing-gum-for-the-brain would be something along the lines of The Adventures of Jack (or Bobby) Shaftoe.</p>
<p>As the godfather of my best friend&#8217;s kids, is it a bad thing to already have a plan for their future reading?</p>
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		<title>By: BigJonno</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19206</link>
		<dc:creator>BigJonno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19206</guid>
		<description>The one that sprang to mind as I was writing was the infamous Leeroy Jenkins. A guy runs into a room while playing World of Warcraft and wipes his raid. The video is posted on the internet (which many claim was staged anyway) and the guy becomes a legend, appearing on t-shirts, in the WoW CCG and miniatures games, all across the internet. &quot;Doing a Leeroy&quot; has become common MMORPG jargon. In the office I worked in at the time, people who never played WoW, who didn&#039;t even game all that much, knew who Leeroy Jenkins was. It was flogged to death and everyone got sick of it and in a couple of years no-one outside of WoW players will ever give it more than a passing thought.

Events outside of the internet itself are passed on in the same way. Look at the recent Susan Boyle phenomenon. You can buy fan made Su-Bo dolls. Will anyone care in year or two?

It&#039;s that kind of thing that reminds me of tales shared by the fireside, ones that get passed on and grow with the telling until they become overblown and fantastic. It&#039;s just that here, on the internet, it happens ridiculously quickly. Instead of these stories achieving a true, lingering, legendary status, they are quickly forgotten as we move on to the Next Big Thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The one that sprang to mind as I was writing was the infamous Leeroy Jenkins. A guy runs into a room while playing World of Warcraft and wipes his raid. The video is posted on the internet (which many claim was staged anyway) and the guy becomes a legend, appearing on t-shirts, in the WoW CCG and miniatures games, all across the internet. &#8220;Doing a Leeroy&#8221; has become common MMORPG jargon. In the office I worked in at the time, people who never played WoW, who didn&#8217;t even game all that much, knew who Leeroy Jenkins was. It was flogged to death and everyone got sick of it and in a couple of years no-one outside of WoW players will ever give it more than a passing thought.</p>
<p>Events outside of the internet itself are passed on in the same way. Look at the recent Susan Boyle phenomenon. You can buy fan made Su-Bo dolls. Will anyone care in year or two?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s that kind of thing that reminds me of tales shared by the fireside, ones that get passed on and grow with the telling until they become overblown and fantastic. It&#8217;s just that here, on the internet, it happens ridiculously quickly. Instead of these stories achieving a true, lingering, legendary status, they are quickly forgotten as we move on to the Next Big Thing.</p>
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		<title>By: David Forbes</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19164</link>
		<dc:creator>David Forbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19164</guid>
		<description>daniel: The NY TImes profile is excellent. Thank you for the link.

BigJonno: &lt;i&gt;
Our fairy tales are born, live and die on the internet, or at least those of a mythological bent, rather than the cautionary tale variety, are.&lt;/i&gt;

Can you give some examples?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>daniel: The NY TImes profile is excellent. Thank you for the link.</p>
<p>BigJonno: <i><br />
Our fairy tales are born, live and die on the internet, or at least those of a mythological bent, rather than the cautionary tale variety, are.</i></p>
<p>Can you give some examples?</p>
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		<title>By: BigJonno</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19122</link>
		<dc:creator>BigJonno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 13:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19122</guid>
		<description>Our fairy tales are born, live and die on the internet, or at least those of a mythological bent, rather than the cautionary tale variety, are.

It doesn&#039;t matter whether you&#039;re talking about forums, chatrooms, MMOs, blogs or whatever, the internet is built around human, albeit remote, interaction. Where people interact, stories are born and people will tell and re-tell those stories. The internet is almost tailor-made for stories to spread, flourish and achieve mythological status. Some never make it past their original peer group, others go as far as the mainstream. Some even make it onto t-shirts.

The flipside of this is the equal rapidity with which these tales die out. I&#039;m often reminded of how, in Transmetropolitan, aliens make contact and their entire culture is popularised, used and then dumped by humanity in a couple of years. We have fairy tales that are hundreds of years old, myths that date back to ancient civilisations, but globally popular, modern-day legends that will be lucky to be more than a tired old joke next week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our fairy tales are born, live and die on the internet, or at least those of a mythological bent, rather than the cautionary tale variety, are.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t matter whether you&#8217;re talking about forums, chatrooms, MMOs, blogs or whatever, the internet is built around human, albeit remote, interaction. Where people interact, stories are born and people will tell and re-tell those stories. The internet is almost tailor-made for stories to spread, flourish and achieve mythological status. Some never make it past their original peer group, others go as far as the mainstream. Some even make it onto t-shirts.</p>
<p>The flipside of this is the equal rapidity with which these tales die out. I&#8217;m often reminded of how, in Transmetropolitan, aliens make contact and their entire culture is popularised, used and then dumped by humanity in a couple of years. We have fairy tales that are hundreds of years old, myths that date back to ancient civilisations, but globally popular, modern-day legends that will be lucky to be more than a tired old joke next week.</p>
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		<title>By: the daniel</title>
		<link>http://coilhouse.net/2009/07/all-tomorrows-the-dying-earth/comment-page-1/#comment-19051</link>
		<dc:creator>the daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 06:52:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://coilhouse.net/?p=8678#comment-19051</guid>
		<description>This is good. Also: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.metafilter.com/83326/Magic-missile&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recent Vance-related Metafilter post&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is good. Also: <a href="http://www.metafilter.com/83326/Magic-missile" rel="nofollow">recent Vance-related Metafilter post</a></p>
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